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How do you feel about the Xbox One NOW?

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Poll: Microsoft has changed the Xbox One (10 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you think about the changes?

  1. I'm indifferent, I feel the same way I did before (7 votes [70.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 70.00%

  2. I'm psyched, this is great news! (1 votes [10.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

  3. I'm miffed, I was fully ready to support Microsoft's digital future (2 votes [20.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

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#21 Blackskullgreymon

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 02:54 PM

As if the two services were even remotely the fucking same.

 

Reasoning can be found here:

 

http://www.ign.com/b...lty-comparison/

 

Steam's offline mode doesn't work with every game.  The check-in is set to 30 days instead of 1 day, and I think that's a compromise Microsoft could have made eventually, anyways.

 

Microsoft has some internal devs that, while they can't "officially" state it, have pointed out that control of the platform to that degree would mean that sales would be easier to work out and put into play, similar to how Steam handles their library.

 

Xbox Live is a service.  If you're buying an Xbox One, it's for the service.  I can understand pointing out that a good gaming PC is at least upgradable, but that's not free, nor is it cheap.  Microsoft made a point to say that at $500 they're offering a "great value", and while that pissed off a lot of folks, it's still less than I paid for my PC, and that thing won't run Battlefield 3 at max settings.  

 

And again, Microsoft was offering the ability to get something back for games we don't want, as well as share with friends for free, which are both things that Steam is struggling to figure out how to do.  



#22 CONKERSBADFURDAY

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 03:33 PM

Steam's offline mode doesn't work with every game.  The check-in is set to 30 days instead of 1 day, and I think that's a compromise Microsoft could have made eventually, anyways.

I've never had an issue with playing in offline mode, and I've a feeling that that is up to the publisher and not Steam to do. I'm also quite sure that the 30 day thing is no longer true and hasn't been for some time, at least some quick Googling points to that as fact.

 

Microsoft has some internal devs that, while they can't "officially" state it, have pointed out that control of the platform to that degree would mean that sales would be easier to work out and put into play, similar to how Steam handles their library.

Just because they can doens't mean they will. I absolutely do not think Microsoft will bother with sales, at least not to the degree of which Steam offers. Some, yes, but not daily. Microsoft is only competing with Sony, so all they need to do is match or slightly better PSN in Sales. Steam competes with Amazon, GOG, Origin, retail, and even consoles. Sales play more of an incentive than a "we love you" there.

 

Xbox Live is a service.  If you're buying an Xbox One, it's for the service.  I can understand pointing out that a good gaming PC is at least upgradable, but that's not free, nor is it cheap.  Microsoft made a point to say that at $500 they're offering a "great value", and while that pissed off a lot of folks, it's still less than I paid for my PC, and that thing won't run Battlefield 3 at max settings.

The problem there is that I rarely use the service. My Xbox360 is rarely plugged in, and I'm usually playing single player games on it when I use it at all, save Halo of course. I recently bought Gears of War: Judgment and have no plans on ever playing that online. The service is useless to me, other than Halo. I keep XBL active for ONE game of my entire library.

 

It isn't cheap to upgrade a PC, but it isn't so bad if you plan accordingly and research what you need. Many PC games also have mods to them, which Xbox One games surely will not have.

 

And since when do you need to run a game at max settings? My PC runs most of my games at max quite fine, and it wasn't all that expensive in the end, but I don't need to run something like Crysis or Battlefield at max to enjoy them (though I have neither of those since they don't appeal to me)

 

And again, Microsoft was offering the ability to get something back for games we don't want, as well as share with friends for free, which are both things that Steam is struggling to figure out how to do.

True, but some of the wording in those announcements pointed at returning to only certain established businesses. So basically Gamestop because the console market still is held in thrall, to some degree anyways, to the retail market. I can't return games on my PC sure, but I've never considered that an issue. Gaming on the PC has always come with a different set of parameters than a console, and I guess I'm used to not sharing there.



#23 Blackskullgreymon

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 03:57 PM

Actually, I was referring to the digital returning of games through Microsoft itself, since we never got clear details on how Gamestop would do it and how it would differ from the Xbox store version of used game exchange.

 

But, the point I'm making here is to look through all your counterarguments to my counterarguments and point out that ultimately we're nitpicking minor things that basically come down to how individuals use things on individual cases.  Sure, we won't see stuff like Tomb Raider half off only a month after launch, but it's more likely to happen under a digital environment than a disk-based one.  Sure, if you do all the research and work yourself, upgrading a PC isn't a big deal, but to some it really is and paying out the difference for a box that is already done is a lot more appealing.  And if your xbox isn't even plugged in to the Internet, it raises the question of why you own one if you're using this specialized device for only 15% of its utility.  That's kind of your decision to actively use the system for your needs as you can and want to, and that's your call.  But, right this moment, if you didn't own a 360, and knowing how you use it now, how much would you pay if you were to go down to Target and pick one up?  Is it worth $200 or whatever to occasionally play Gears single player?  

 

I feel the original Xbox One policies largely catered to the very large majority of Xbox users, and even if someone wants to argue otherwise, it doesn't change the fact that we'll see a lot of people enjoying Halo 5 on their Xbox Ones with a gold account while whiny 12 year olds complain that their parents aren't going to renew their gold service, just as always.  It's not for everyone, but it's for a lot.



#24 CONKERSBADFURDAY

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:30 PM

Snip

Aye, you're right on a good handful of accounts. I used my Xbox360 more when it was new and I had more time for it, but as I've grown older, I've turned to my PC simply because I find it easier and more convenient. It's always on. I suppose I'm not the norm.

 

There are other single player games I play on the Xbox360, or did. Splitscreen is a favorite of mine, and me and my bro have played through a good handful of games that way. I'll miss that as part of the console experience going forward, but it won't be the end of the world either.



#25 Admin EP

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 08:14 PM

Aye, you're right on a good handful of accounts. I used my Xbox360 more when it was new and I had more time for it, but as I've grown older, I've turned to my PC simply because I find it easier and more convenient. It's always on. I suppose I'm not the norm.

No, you are the norm. MS wanted the One to always be on as well. You're gripe with the One is that it's doing all the things a PC does but it's a console.

> An Appeal to Tradition
You said yourself this one was dumb and I'll agree.
> Steam Has an Offline Mode
This is a valid point, but also one that shows how differently Steam and MS handle the "always online" thing. Steam puts it off as a side-feature that it can say it has, but it makes it really vague just how "offline" you can be (like BSGM said you still have to checkin periodically, just not as frequently). The funny thing is that if you look it up online it's a mystery to people because no one is offline for long periods of time.
> The Deals Make up for It
I forgot Steam patented deals. You realize one thing that gives Steam the flexible to do deals the way they do is because there is no middle man. Look at Nintendo who is doing very similar deals, and MS has already done similar deals on Live (I think PSN even has weekly deals). This is _NOT_ a "Steam" thing, just something anyone who thinks home consoles are "disc only" will miss out on.
> My PC isn’t Broken if the Internet Dies
Neither is the One, and it is designed to have more than gaming as well.
> My PC is upgradable
This one is just out of left field as I don't see how being able to pay more to keep up instead of having developers target you makes Steam better.
> Steam is a service, Xbox One is a console
You aren't creating a rational argument and are trying to compare two different things. Your Steam games are all reliant on Steam, just like your Xbox One games are all reliant on MS. No one is arguing that PC and Xbox Ones are similar, just that the Steam and Xbox one game service models are.\


Also you've made several comments about how "you are just used to not being able to share digital games" and "well I always have my PC plugged in but not home consoles". These don't say anything about MS's vision of the console itself, except for the fact that they weren't able to show you that vision of having a device that would always be part of your TV and would be as convenient to play games as it is on a PC.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

It's funny because even after writing this response I love the idea of a digital console even more. I started out hating the digital Xbox One and even a month (?) after it's unveiling I am finding more reasons to like it. As stupid as it sounds, I play less games just because there is a whole setup process. That's one reason I like the 3DS - it's always on. I just pick it up and play. If playing Halo was easy as saying "Play Halo" and picking the controller off my desk, then I might actually play more. Right now there is turning the controller on, turning the Xbox on, turning the TV on, possibly switching to the right mode, finding the disc and putting it in, then going through menus, then updates - it might sound lazy but it's just a barrier to someone who plays games somewhat casually (in the sense that I don't devote huge chunks of my time specifically to them, I usually play them on a whim and on the side).

#26 CONKERSBADFURDAY

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:43 PM

> Steam Has an Offline Mode
This is a valid point, but also one that shows how differently Steam and MS handle the "always online" thing. Steam puts it off as a side-feature that it can say it has, but it makes it really vague just how "offline" you can be (like BSGM said you still have to checkin periodically, just not as frequently). The funny thing is that if you look it up online it's a mystery to people because no one is offline for long periods of time.

Since when has Microsoft been talking up offline capabilities for the X1? They've only started now due to all of the backlash, but the console was never about playing offline just as Steam doesn't ever glorify it's offline mode. But Steam does have one and I'm pretty god damned sure you don't need to check in periodically. I've never been offline for more than a month though.

> The Deals Make up for It
I forgot Steam patented deals. You realize one thing that gives Steam the flexible to do deals the way they do is because there is no middle man. Look at Nintendo who is doing very similar deals, and MS has already done similar deals on Live (I think PSN even has weekly deals). This is _NOT_ a "Steam" thing, just something anyone who thinks home consoles are "disc only" will miss out on.

When did I ever claim Steam patented deals? Steam is a kind of DRM, I'm not so stupid as to not see that, but there are upsides to using it and that is one of them. Steam has daily deals, sometimes on games that are fairly new.

 

PSN has deals, but only if you subscribe to their service. It is, to be a sure, a fantastic service and you get many a free game if you keep it up, but it still requires a subscription. MIcrosoft will also require a subscription based thing to access their deals. Steam is free.

 

But it's not even that. It's the fact that while Microsoft and Sony will have deals, they won't match what Steam is offering because neither company needs to bother matching what Steam is offering. It'll be a thrown bone to consumers, but not the thing the product is very much known for.

> My PC isn’t Broken if the Internet Dies
Neither is the One, and it is designed to have more than gaming as well.

Untrue. When this online stuff was announced, if you didn't connect periodically you couldn't use the console. It remained a DVD/BlueRay player and nothing more.

> My PC is upgradable
This one is just out of left field as I don't see how being able to pay more to keep up instead of having developers target you makes Steam better.

Not sure what you mean by paying more to keep up. As it stands, unless you're absolutely crazy with your console, playing on a PC is no more different than a console in terms of when you need to upgrade. New console out? You'll eventually need some new parts to match the new threshold of graphics and power. But even then, most games look better on PC, and if that's important to you, then it's worth paying a bit more to access.

 

There's also mods to consider, which drastically alter games.

> Steam is a service, Xbox One is a console
You aren't creating a rational argument and are trying to compare two different things. Your Steam games are all reliant on Steam, just like your Xbox One games are all reliant on MS. No one is arguing that PC and Xbox Ones are similar, just that the Steam and Xbox one game service models are.\

But that isn't true. Some of my Steam games rely on Steam--the Valve ones and maybe a few others--but not all of them.

 

It's funny because even after writing this response I love the idea of a digital console even more.

It's funny because after going through this, I realized I already have what amounts to a digital console and I really don't need another one. There's absolutely no need for me to get an X1 other than Halo, which I've already mentioned.



#27 Jonny The Pie King

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 08:01 PM

I can't believe they got that far with that stupid ass idea anyway.  The arguement against it is "but it'd be just like steam!  Great sales all the time and they're always online!"

-1 day vs a month for time allowed offline.  This now also includes being able to sign in with your phone, I believe, in the case of steam.
-There is zero reason to believe Microsoft would put up huge sales. Zero.  Nada.  Have you seen their 360 games on Live?   Whatever the hell they're called?  They're still ripoffs and always much cheaper in stores regardless.

-Steam has at least one game on sale every day.  On weekends they often have mulitple games on sale.  Case and point, that dead island sequel that just came out?  Half off this weekend.
-Netflix is still behind a fucking paywall, as is online gaming.  I'm kinda pissed PS3 online gaming is behind a paywall too now, since 99% of games just use matchmaking, not dedicated servers.  They're pretty much just having someone host the game, which gives them an unfair advantage.  See Call of Duty.

Basically, I think it's pretty sad that some people are willing to jump on a system that the creator was so willingly able to fuck over.  You want an all digital console?  Well, you could get a PC, seeing as mid range videocards are already more powerful than the PS4 and Xbone.  By the time they come out, low end cards will be more powerful, and mid range videocards will be twice as powerful as the PS4.  Less than a year after the systems come out, you'll be able to build a PC for greater power at $500 or less (actually some already have that PC built on GAF, minus the OS).  I mean, virtually every game supports the 360 controller natively anyway, so there's that too.

Even so, suppose you go the PS4 or Xbone route, can't you still just have only digital games?  Won't every release be on the system day and date?  I figure they could still do that, it's just that now you can actually play them if your internet goes out for a few days (shit happens, trust me.  It sucks, and it's why games for windows live is the worst DRM on the planet).  I just don't get why you'd bother paying more money ($500 vs $400 of the PS4) for a weaker system with almost the same library, and forced kinect bullshit.

 



#28 Blackskullgreymon

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 09:27 PM

It's a "weaker" system only barely and with the added infrastructure and cloud computing resources, in a lot of ways the online services they provide make it a better gaming experience, like you pointed out with the game hosting thing.

 

Now, I don't think anyone's stupid enough to assume we'd get Steam brand sales on the Microsuck, but the pricing would improve.  The thing is, what seems to get everyone's goat is whenever they announce DLC or unfair preorder bonuses.  You know, the stuff that's only around to prevent people from getting the game without funneling money the right way?  I was kind of hopeful we might see a world a little more like Nintendo, where developers are allowed to make a game how they want to with a little less marketing development being forced on them.  Look at The Last of Us.  Preorder, and you get a survival pack of better items and stuff that robs you of challenge and reward so you can blow through the game faster.  That's just fantastic.  Looking forward to next gen's sure-fire lack of change.



#29 Admin EP

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 09:49 PM

Eh, I own a pretty powerful computer and I don't touch PC gaming. There is just something about it I don't like, but maybe it is just the fact that there are very few PC titles that I think are good.

#30 Prowl 1701

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:40 PM

Eh, I own a pretty powerful computer and I don't touch PC gaming. There is just something about it I don't like, but maybe it is just the fact that there are very few PC titles that I think are good.

I'm with EP on this one, I've NEVER been a PC gamers, it's just never appealed to me. I never got into MMORPG or any that stuff either. I have friends that love games like WOW, heck all five of the guys I went canoeing with swear by it, but it holds no interest for me.  I don't need consoles that try to be like PCs, I want a console to just be a console. I love my 360 console setup, give me more of that and I'm happy honestly.







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