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PS4.5 or "PS4K" coming? - Improved GPU

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#11 Lame "PBluafnotr4d2" 87421F

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 08:59 AM

CPU: 8-core Jaguar at 2.1GHz (vs. the PS4's 8-core Jaguar at 1.6GHz)GPU: AMD GCN, 36 CUs at 911 MHz (vs. 18 CUs at 800 MHz...


So it's basically just like a Jaguar and a GameCube put together? Disappointing. Well, no, actually. Satisfying, but unimpressive.


@mandated PS4K features simultaneously with prohibited PS4K exclusivity, I expect this to open doors for shitty offerings similar to the forced store-exclusive preorder bonuses

#12 Admin Prime

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:49 PM

Like I said, exclusive content is not allowed. Basically all developers can do is increase the framerate, resolution, image quality, and asset quality. The difference will literally be like playing a PC game on medium settings versus high settings.

#13 Lame "PBluafnotr4d2" 87421F

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:54 PM

Wtf I misread that. I thought you said that they HAD to have some feature for PS4K, but that it must not be V exclusive have outright. You just said "performance." Yeah, that won't be so bad then.

How do you think NX will stack up?

#14 Admin Prime

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 02:50 PM

Wtf I misread that. I thought you said that they HAD to have some feature for PS4K, but that it must not be V exclusive have outright. You just said "performance." Yeah, that won't be so bad then.

How do you think NX will stack up?


Hard to tell, and some recent rumblings have cast doubt on portions of the latest rumors. Either way, in terms of the raw numbers PS4K will be a pretty clear winner. At best the NX is probably looking at a 2.5TFLOPS GPU (and more likely 2.1) whereas the NEO GPU would be around 4.2TFLOPS. The CPU may be mildly faster as well (supposedly the NX beats the Xbox One CPU, which is faster than the PS4's by a small degree). That said, raw numbers don't paint the full picture. NX is likely to be a bit more modern (the NEO will literally be the PS4 but faster, while the NX will probably be a proper 2016-ish architecture), with some greatly improved efficiency, meaning it will compare better than the numbers will suggest.

But yeah, tl;dr, the PS4 will probably come out on top by a fair degree, especially on paper, but a more modern architecture will bridge at least a small part of the gap.

#15 Lame "PBluafnotr4d2" 87421F

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 03:36 PM

What about that extend-o power port? Do you think that it'll be available from Day 1? I think it could, and I hope it will. If it does, I'll prolly get it right away. That being the case, I might get my 3rd-party games on NX [assuming it gets that support] instead of PS4... But damnit, what'll happen once Nintendo confirms that they won't have a comparable trophy/achievement system? Then I'll want to get it for PS4 after all. Then I'll be like FUCK, gotta buy a PS4 NEO. Then, right after I buy it, Sony will announce the PS4 NEO-GEO, and I'll rage anew.

#16 Admin Prime

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 04:31 PM

I'm not sure Nintendo will release an upgrade module on day one. That would mean that the perceived price of the console will be a good bit higher, which may not be desirable at launch, and I think Nintendo will try to build up a market before trying to push upgrades. If anything, they'll probably hold off and keep an eye on the PS4K's reception and go from there. Reportedly developers aren't happy with having to work with two PS4 specs, and daisy-chained SCDs would be waaaaay more difficult for developers. So Nintendo may have a lot to learn from the early days of the PS4K.

#17 Lame "PBluafnotr4d2" 87421F

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 04:47 PM

I'm not sure Nintendo will release an upgrade module on day one. That would mean that the perceived price of the console will be a good bit higher, which may not be desirable at launch, and I think Nintendo will try to build up a market before trying to push upgrades. If anything, they'll probably hold off and keep an eye on the PS4K's reception and go from there. Reportedly developers aren't happy with having to work with two PS4 specs, and daisy-chained SCDs would be waaaaay more difficult for developers. So Nintendo may have a lot to learn from the early days of the PS4K.

 

But how different would that be from launching with 2 SKUs? They did it with Wii U, and this could be more akin to Sm4sh launching with the optional GCN Adapter on the side. The enhancement could be there for those who want and can afford it, and it'll drive the cost of the core system down for an entry-level system.

 

@Devs saying it's hard, I thought shit was a lot easier to scale now. Why isn't it as easy as a PC game that scales depending on graphics settings? Do PC devs have to painstakingly create 3 to 6 builds of the same game for each graphics setting? I thought that they just didn't load all the effects/layers, sort of like the way draw distance causes elements pops in--some bells and whistles just wouldn't render. Is this wrong? If not, then I'd think devs could program it to detect hardware and render at the best possible settings (which would be lower on Old PS4). Apparently that's not the case if devs are upset tho.



#18 Admin Prime

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 06:11 PM

I think there's a pretty huge difference between launching with two different storage capacities (Wii U) and launching with a console and a device to "make your games not look like shit". Something that significantly boosts computing power is going to look like a necessary upgrade to many, especially if they're released side-by-side, and I think that may turn people off. Getting a Wii U Basic meant "if I go digital, eventually I'll need a new external hard drive". Getting an NX at launch without an SCD means that for the time being all of your games are going to look and perform worse than they could be. It's going to directly diminish the experience, and mean people day one are going to feel forced to pay $100-$200 (or however much these will cost) to make their games perform as they should. I think Nintendo will target a single spec first, then down the line offer enhancements so it genuinely feels like an upgrade, rather than making an NX without and SCD attached feel like a gimped device built to cut costs and make you pay for the rest of the specs separately.

PC developers aren't creating 3-6 "builds" of everything, but since they're working with a platform with virtually infinite possible specs and configurations, it's a massive pain in the ass to optimize for. It's not as complex as building entirely distinct versions, but it's very much not as simple as "alright, we'll just toggle this variable down aaaaand done" - at least if you want a well optimized experience. It's part of the reason minimum specs have been ballooning on PC. Realistically, given time and resources they could get the spec requirements down, but the more hardware you're supporting, the more time and resources are going to be needed to pull off every optimization trick. It's just too much of a pain in the ass to make sure you get optimal performance from every single possible rig. Which is why a single spec hardware platform is nice. You work on optimizing everything on an extremely specific piece of hardware, meaning you can milk a lot more out of it a hell of a lot easier.

So, the reason developers are upset is because the benefit of console development is you're developing towards a single spec. Now, even if they go with the absolute minimum approach for "NEO Mode", it's still at least a little more work since they have to test their performance on a second SKU. For instance, perhaps the game may only have certain physics bugs when it's outputting at 60FPS, etc.. Maybe "Neo Mode" lets them bump up the rendering resolution, but now they have to make sure everything behaves the same. All sorts of stuff. So no matter what, there's at least extra testing costs that are going to happen. And of course most PS4K owners are going to expect significant performance gains, and be deeply upset by anything but. So now it's expected that developers spend the extra time to further optimize for the high-spec SKU. It's just stripping a layer of simplicity from the whole thing, and under any scenario it's going to be an inconvenience.

Nintendo's daisy-chained SCD approach is much more complex, and now developers would have to worry about performance across anywhere from two to potentially dozens of possible specs. It suddenly makes a single console just as annoying to optimize for as PC. Maybe this user will have just the base console. Maybe they have 10 of the latest SCDs. You're going to have a huge gulf in performance and it's going to be expected that you optimize reasonably well for all possibilities.

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#19 Ngamer01

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 12:37 PM

http://www.cnet.com/...-wont-be-at-e3/

 

Sony confirms PS4.5/PS4K (name unofficial) is coming, but the official reveal WILL NOT BE AT e3 2016.  The official reveal date has yet to be announced.







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